Gordan Runyan:
Hey, welcome y'all. This is the Ragtown Reformed Forum here for another episode. We're going to be talking about the topic of Solus Christus. My name is Gordan Runyan, your host, with the face made for radio and a voice fitted for pantomime. And on my extreme right, my friend and music minister, David Morris. How are you doing, sir?
David Morris:
I'm very good today.
Gordan Runyan:
And right next to me is Pastor Tom Miller. How are you today, Pastor?
Tom Miller:
I'm doing just fine.
Gordan Runyan:
Our young scholar, John Train, is not with us today due to family obligations. As far as I know, he's still single and looking to mingle, though. So you Christian ladies out there listening to the podcast, you need to snap this gentleman up. All right, so I think our first order of business when we're talking about the Reformed doctrine of Solus Christus is to define it. So how would you define it, gentlemen? What is Solus Christus?
Tom Miller:
I think we need to let Scripture define it.
Gordan Runyan:
Please do.
Tom Miller:
And, excuse me, let's go to, if you have a Bible, turn with me to 1 Timothy chapter 2. And verse 5. If we ask the question, where did the Reformers go to to fill their picture of Christ, they would tell you they went to Scripture. And that's why we have gone to 1 Timothy chapter 2 and verse 5, which gives us a very clear delineation of why we say that there is only one object of our faith, and that is Christ Jesus. Because reading from the English Standard Version, it says, For there is one God, and that's a principle that we had already previously established. There is one God, and there is one mediator between God and man, and that is the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which the testimony given by the proper time. So not only did God the Father appoint Christ to be the only mediator between the men that he created and himself, he also appointed Christ, the second member of the Godhead, also to be our Redeemer. So Christ is our mediator and he is our Redeemer. It's because of his finished work on the cross that we are redeemed. We believe that the Scripture clearly teaches there is not any need for any other intermediary other than Christ Himself, and no other sacrifice. That's why the sacrifices ceased in the temple, and that is also why any concept of the Lord's table being a reenacting of Christ's sacrifice is specious, because there was one sacrifice, one time only, and there is only one sacrificial Lamb, and it is Christ Jesus the man.
Gordan Runyan:
Right. Now, when we say that we believe Solus Christus is highlighting the exclusive mediatorial work of Christ, to use the term David brought to the table before the podcast, He is the exclusive mediator. I think we might have to define mediator a little bit, because when I say mediator, I'm talking about someone set between me and God so that the only way I can access God is through this one. And on the other hand, coming from God, the only way His grace or His blessings come to me is through this exclusive mediator. And when I say mediator, that's what I'm talking about, because I think that Roman Catholics old and new would like to say that Protestants believe in a host of mediators because we give honor to pastors and elders and we love to have people pray for us and stuff. So. So, see, you guys believe in having other mediators, people praying for you, but that's not what we mean when we say mediator. We're talking about the door through whom the blessings come.
Tom Miller:
Correct.
Gordan Runyan:
And there's only one. And so I think it's important to at least define it like that.
Tom Miller:
Yeah, we need to delineate between mediator and advocate, as Paul often spoke about Christ being our advocate, which is a post-redemptive office.
Gordan Runyan:
Okay. Yeah.
Tom Miller:
As mediator, he mediated the blood covenant that the Lord's table mirrors.
David Morris:
Right, right. Yeah. I found this note on the internet, and it says that sola mediator is Jesus stands as the only bridge between a holy God and a sinful people.
Gordan Runyan:
Right.
David Morris:
And he is the—and just, he's the sole justification for our sins and righteousness.
Tom Miller:
Yeah. There is a point, though, also we have to say that Christ and the cross are that bridge without his finished work on the cross.
David Morris:
That's right.
Tom Miller:
He wouldn't have not completed his work as a mediator.
Gordan Runyan:
Right. Isn't it true that Solus Christus is really just applying the exclusivity of Christ inside the church? Because, you know, when we preach, we preach the exclusivity of Christ, that there's no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.
David Morris:
Right.
Gordan Runyan:
Acts 4:12, and also in John 14:6, that everybody loves. He said, I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes to the Father but by me. And those are statements of the exclusivity of Christ in a general way. The whole world can't come to God except through Jesus. He said, No one comes to the Father but through me. And that's true when we preach outside the church, but it also remains true once you're inside the church. It doesn't loosen up or anything. There's no mediators inside the church. And I think that's to be contrasted with probably Gnosticism in the first century and how the Gnostic theory was that there's this whole ladder of mediators that you need to go through and be introduced to.
David Morris:
Yeah. I've got another note here that also goes along with that. It's called perfect atonement, and it says only Jesus possessed— human, wait a minute, let me see. No, no. Only Jesus possessed the dual nature of being fully God and fully man.
Gordan Runyan:
Right.
Tom Miller:
So, yeah, no, I picked 1 Timothy, the first—1 Timothy reference because of three things that it establishes, which is important to the doctrine.
David Morris:
Okay.
Tom Miller:
Number one, the Trinity. This verse backs up the Trinity. There is one God. Shema Israel, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai Echad. Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. So our mediator is not only truly man, he's also truly God. But the personality in the Godhead of Christ has an individual mission, if you want to call it, or even occupation, and that's the redemptive work that was done for us. And now he also does the advocacy. Whenever Satan accuses a believer of sinning or whatever, it is our mediator, who is also our advocate, that argues for us. The second one, we need to understand this about Christ's onliness because it's also linked to God's aseity, his onliness, that he needs no—God, the Godhead doesn't need anyone to assist him in being God. Christ needs no one to assist him in being mediator. So, in other words, the pastor of a church, which is an English word for shepherd or overseer, is not a vicar.
Gordan Runyan:
Right.
Tom Miller:
And that's my argument with the English church, with the Church of England. Their pastors are not vicars. Vicar has more of a connotation of someone who mediates for God. And that's why they have the vicar of Rome. So it's important in this oneness that each member of the Godhead is the same in essence, power, authority, and rule. Yes. Christ must be the only Redeemer. Yeah. Mary, his earthly mother, is not a redemptress. He needs no one to assist him in redemption. Right. That's very important. And then lastly, Christ could not sit down, as we are told in Hebrews, he sat down next to the Father. He couldn't sit down until redemption was completed or secured.
Gordan Runyan:
Right.
Tom Miller:
Yeah.
Gordan Runyan:
His finished work as mediator is what qualified him to take that seat at the right hand of God. Right. And preaching through Hebrews, we're in the middle of that section that we're talking about. Hebrews chapter 7 has that really sweet promise that Jesus always lives to make intercession for the saints. And it's hard to get better good news than that, to know that Jesus is right there praying for you all the time at the throne of God. And I don't know why you would cast about looking for other prayer warriors up in heaven, for you knowing that Jesus is already there. He's already on your side, already mediating for you.
Tom Miller:
Well, Paul tells us that—Satan still has access to the throne room, and he indicts the body of Christ, the Christians, before the Father all the time. But the Son replies, I see them through the blood.
Gordan Runyan:
Sure. Yeah, yeah.
Tom Miller:
So that's a continuous advocacy he has for us.
Gordan Runyan:
Right. And just for our new Reformers out there listening to us, what's the kind of catechism answer to the question of why Jesus had to be truly God and truly man in order to be our mediator? You'd want to take a swing at that. Why did he have to be both? It was because he's mediating between God and men. So the mediator couldn't be an angel because it doesn't share the nature of either side of the argument.
Tom Miller:
No.
Gordan Runyan:
Either side of the controversy. But Jesus perfectly represents both sides in the argument, so he can be the mediator, the way we think of a mediator of a contract dispute or something like that. He's got everybody's best interests perfectly in mind. No side in the argument is going to come out on the short end of the deal.
Tom Miller:
Yeah, I think the other thing we need to throw in there is the fact that we had to have the sinless mediator.
David Morris:
Oh, sure.
Tom Miller:
An ordinary man also would carry the same curse of original sin.
David Morris:
He needed a mediator.
Tom Miller:
So he needed to be the mediator, and the Mosaic— Law that the lamb on the Paschal lamb had to be spotless.
Gordan Runyan:
Sure.
Tom Miller:
Our Redeemer had to be spotless.
David Morris:
He just stole my speech right there. Oh, well, let me ask you. That's what I was going to say, is
Gordan Runyan:
how big a deal is it theologically that it's kind of a trend in the evangelical church that more and more people are willing to say that Jesus was probably not flawless, that he probably did sin at some point in his life? How big a deal is that theologically?
David Morris:
Well, it just doesn't work according to Scripture, according to what— see, Jesus had to be a perfect sacrifice.
Gordan Runyan:
Yeah.
David Morris:
That was the only way that we could have atonement, have atonement for our salvation. So all those things that they're bringing up, I find no reference in any kind of Scripture anywhere that states that he messed up anywhere.
Gordan Runyan:
No.
David Morris:
And everything I read points to the fact that as an example, he had to walk perfect and sinless so that we would have an example to shoot for.
Gordan Runyan:
Oh, yeah.
David Morris:
And though we will miss it on a lot of occasions, you know, we still have that perfect sacrifice of an example that we can still shoot for even when we miss it. Yeah,
Gordan Runyan:
right.
David Morris:
And he has the great mercy to accept us even though we have missed the mark.
Unidentified speaker:
Right.
Tom Miller:
In the—In the Paschal Lamb, the sins of the people for a year was forgiven at the end. But also at the end, the high priest put his hands on the sacrificial lamb, and the sins of the people were applied to it. Okay. Christ had to be truly God and truly man, because as Paul tells us, He who knew no sin became sin for us on the cross. So the Father laid the sins of mankind, past, present, and future, onto Christ, the Paschal Lamb, once and for all. So He couldn't have been just, you know, Enoch was taken into heaven, so he remained the sinless person he was. Christ was sinless and had no sin nature. So our sins were applied to Him. Nobody else could have taken on that office.
David Morris:
That's right.
Gordan Runyan:
Right. Any other scriptures for us?
Tom Miller:
Well, Galatians 3, chapter—I mean, verses 19 through 27, Galatians chapter 3.
Gordan Runyan:
Galatians chapter 3.
Tom Miller:
Actually, we're going to start at verse 15. I had to add some afterwards.
Gordan Runyan:
Okay.
Tom Miller:
Therefore He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred. That redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. Therefore, not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood. For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of the calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and the people, saying,‘ This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you.’ And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and the vessels used therein in worship. Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
Gordan Runyan:
I think we announced the wrong verse there. You were reading from Hebrews 10.
Tom Miller:
Oh, I’m sorry. I got in the wrong place.
Gordan Runyan:
Yeah. I was mighty confused. I was thinking, man, my translation is really different.
Tom Miller:
I’m old.
Gordan Runyan:
Yeah, so we can go with that text.
Tom Miller:
Yeah, we’ll go back to Galatians. What are the three things I see here completed? Well, number one, man is totally depraved. So the only one who could redeem, could bring the remedy, was a spotless mediator. And back. to Eden, in Adam all die, but in Christ all live. His was a sufficient sacrifice, where here in Hebrews, the Mosaic one was not. It was not a total redemption. It was not efficacious because every year it had to be reclaimed.
Gordan Runyan:
That's kind of the sine qua non, to throw some Latin at you. That's the sign that shows you that your sacrifices are not getting the job done. The fact that you have to keep doing them. That was true under the Jewish administration, but, you know, it's still true today. If you believe that your church's offerings, sacrifices that have to keep on being offered, that automatically points to the fact that they're not getting the job done.
Tom Miller:
Yeah, that's the difference between an ordinance and a sacrament.
Gordan Runyan:
Right.
Tom Miller:
And why in the Reformed world, except for some, well, uninformed individuals, it's not a sacrament. We are not re-sacrificing Christ.
Gordan Runyan:
No.
Tom Miller:
We are remembering that sacrifice.
David Morris:
Right.
Tom Miller:
And the elements do not change nature. They are what God created them in the beginning: juice and bread.
David Morris:
Yeah, right.
Tom Miller:
But they symbolize, or are remembrance. What Christ did for us. What the only Savior, the solo Christus, did for us.
David Morris:
Sure. Yes, sir.
Gordan Runyan:
Do you have ramifications of that text, or have you read them already, for what that establishes for us?
Tom Miller:
Yeah. Number one, that we are totally depraved and need a spotless Redeemer, and only one could do that, and that is Christ. Right. No one else can. No one else could do what God appointed Him to do. And because He's the exception, that's why the virgin birth is important.
David Morris:
Yes.
Tom Miller:
And why, in Isaiah chapter 7, she was not a young woman; she was a virgin. Yeah. Right. And lastly, I'd like for us to all realize that in Adam, because of original sin, we die. But because of only Christ and only the cross,
Gordan Runyan:
we
Tom Miller:
all live who receive Him.
Gordan Runyan:
It's not just about exclusivity, is it? It's about sufficiency. We really do believe that Jesus did everything necessary to get the job done. He doesn't need any help, and nothing needs to be added to His work or anything
Tom Miller:
like that. No.
Gordan Runyan:
We kind of believe the same thing about the Scripture itself, right? That we believe the Scripture is not only right and true in everything that it teaches, but we believe it's sufficient. We don't need more than what the Scripture has to say and reveal to us.
Tom Miller:
Yeah, that's why the little—there's a little new— well, it's not all that new now, but the acrostic S-C-A-N. Scripture is A, sufficient.
Gordan Runyan:
Okay.
Tom Miller:
Number two, C, it is clear, clarity. Man, it has authority.
David Morris:
Right.
Tom Miller:
We've just read the two places where the not implied, but direct, clearly spoken authority of Christ was to redeem sinners.
David Morris:
Right.
Tom Miller:
And then, and the end part is, it's necessary. Without it, then we are where we are. We are still in our sins.
David Morris:
Right. Great. I don't know if this is going off track or not, but as you was talking, I was thinking of, see, in Genesis 1, God created the world. And when He got finished with it, what did He say? He viewed it, and it was good. He made man. What did He say? It was good. Right. And then in chapter 6, I believe it is, He said that He, that man, He saw that man only sinned continually. And where I'm headed here is, why wouldn't a perfect God who built a perfect world with perfect humans at that moment, why wouldn't He send us a perfect salvation? How can we get around the fact that, how can they make excuses that Jesus wasn't first, that He wasn't real God and real man, you know? Yeah. How can they come up with these statements whenever we believe, if you believe in God and everything He's done, you have to believe He sent His Son, the perfect sacrifice, who came through a virgin woman.
Tom Miller:
Right.
David Morris:
And He— Walked his twelve years, or he walked his years submissive and obedient to his parents, just like we did, or supposed to have done. And then at whatever point in his life, the whole time he was being trained, but at whatever point, then he started becoming more of his own man in Christ, or in God, and the training of God. So, and then he started his ministry at thirty or something like that. So how can you not look at everything Christ did up to that point on the cross?
Tom Miller:
I have to go back to something my grandfather used to say, that there's a copperhead in the woodpile. And the copperhead is— you can smell it. You can smell copperheads a mile away. The copperhead in the woodpile is the so-called theologian that wants to bring glory upon man rather than God getting glory. And everything that you just spoke screams that it was all for God's glory. A perfect God does perfect things not only because of his nature and attributes, but always because he does nothing that doesn't bring glory to his name.
David Morris:
That's right.
Unidentified speaker:
Amen.
Tom Miller:
So, in other words, an imperfect sacrifice would not bring him glory. No.
David Morris:
It would reverse it to man, and that's not what the cross was all about.
Tom Miller:
No, the cross is not about an excuse. You know, we used to stay out of school and take an excuse to the attendance office. No, Christ and the cross are not a note from your mom.
David Morris:
That's right. And it's a different world.
Gordan Runyan:
All right. You wanted to also read Galatians 3.
Tom Miller:
Yeah. All right, beginning at verse 19. 19.
Gordan Runyan:
Galatians 3:19. You want me to read it?
Tom Miller:
Yeah, go ahead.
Gordan Runyan:
Verse, or where do you want me to stop at?
Tom Miller:
19 to 22.
Gordan Runyan:
Right. Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not. For if a law had been given which could make alive, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture consigned all things to sin, that what was promised to faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Tom Miller:
And I see here clearly that number one, man is a sinner, and he's in need of a Savior, and the law is insufficient.
Gordan Runyan:
Right.
Tom Miller:
Now some are going to argue, well, the law was part of the Scripture, and the Scripture is sufficient. Yes, but the main thing that the Scriptures is sufficient to do is convincing of sin.
Gordan Runyan:
Right.
Tom Miller:
I am convinced that Scripture was written in this sense, a little essentially, and given to us to bring us to that point of conviction so that we can be regenerated. Without the conviction of sin, we ignore the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration.
Gordan Runyan:
You wind up calling God a liar.
David Morris:
Yeah. That's not being in a good place if you do that.
Gordan Runyan:
No. You need God to come and save you, and you're over here accusing Him of not telling you the truth.
Tom Miller:
And the promise was made to Abraham.
Gordan Runyan:
That's right.
Tom Miller:
That's the second thing we learn here. The promise was made to Abraham. It was not made to Adam. No. Because Adam fell.
Gordan Runyan:
That's right.
Tom Miller:
And we all fell in him. The promise was made to Abraham, and not to the nation that he sired, but rather those who are his spiritual children. By what? Faith. In my translation it uses the word believe, those who believe. But I had a professor that says what that really should say is given to those who faith, who have an active belief and trust in God and His Son alone.
Gordan Runyan:
Right. Faith is a verb.
Tom Miller:
Well, it's a noun and a verb simultaneously.
Gordan Runyan:
Yeah.
Tom Miller:
And we can blame the Greeks for that. And lastly, the law exposes us for who we are.
Gordan Runyan:
Amen to that.
Tom Miller:
And at the same time, the law throws glorious light upon Christ. The only Redeemer.
David Morris:
Yeah.
Gordan Runyan:
Amen.
David Morris:
If you want proof of what Tom was just talking about, look at Romans 4, 1 through 12, and it'll tell you all about Abraham and the faith that he was, and how it was counted to him.
Gordan Runyan:
Amen. Amen.
Tom Miller:
And then lastly, let's look at 1 John chapter 1, verses 1 to 4, which is really a salutation. But every salutation in the epistles is not a howdy. Some of them are really jam-packed with good doctrine. That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked at and have touched with our hands concerning the Word of life. We're going right back to the Gospel of John chapter 1, aren't we?
Gordan Runyan:
Yes, sir.
Tom Miller:
And life was made manifest. That means seen. But not just seen by, I believe here you have to say that the elect and the reprobate both get to see the majesty that he's talking about here, the living Word of God, which is Christ.
David Morris:
Yeah.
Tom Miller:
And we have seen it and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was made manifest to us. Christ is not only the only Redeemer. Not only is it Solus Christus, but that is the direct, determinate counsel of the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But God the Father is always the top authority. Christ came and was our, is our only Redeemer at the direct authority of Christ. Not Nashville, not Rome, not New York.
David Morris:
Yep, that's right.
Tom Miller:
But God the Father. Life was made manifest, and we have seen it and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life which was with the Father and has been made manifest to us. That which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you may have fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And we are writing these things so that your joy may be multiplied. And again, now I can come to the Catechism. What is the chief end of man? The chief end of man is to glorify God and what? Enjoy His fellowship forever.
Unidentified speaker:
Amen.
David Morris:
Yep, that's right.
Tom Miller:
Here is John and his epistle exactly stating that clearly.
David Morris:
Yeah.
Tom Miller:
What is our joy? That by our meager faith, because it's really very meager. Our faith is nothing like our master's faith.
Gordan Runyan:
No.
Tom Miller:
We bring glory to God, and that gives us joy.
Gordan Runyan:
Amen. Amen.
Unidentified speaker:
Yep.
Tom Miller:
He is— I wrote down here something from R. C. Sproul: In reality, Christ is the absolute expression of God. Yep. Because the Word became flesh.
Gordan Runyan:
Right. Yeah. God spoke in various times and many ways to the fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son.
David Morris:
Yep.
Gordan Runyan:
He is the revelation. He's the messenger, but He's also the message. Yep.
David Morris:
Well, see, He's
Gordan Runyan:
the content.
David Morris:
John 14:6, you know, is one of the reference scriptures I got, and it was—it says, Jesus said to him,‘ I am the way, the truth, and the life.’ Let's see here, the truth. No man comes to the Father but by Me. So that right there tells you there's only one way. That's through Christ. Now, I think I'd be amiss if I didn't go ahead and say the scripture that I always love, and that's John 6:44, and that is,‘ No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draw them.’
Gordan Runyan:
Right.
Unidentified speaker:
Amen.
David Morris:
And so those two scriptures have to go together, but they—Absolutely point to God the Father and Jesus the Son, and being the only way to get to heaven.
Gordan Runyan:
Right.
Tom Miller:
Yeah. And I'd like to hitchhike on what you just said.
David Morris:
Okay, go ahead.
Tom Miller:
And say that what this does clearly, God, when Christ appeared back in the resurrected Christ in heaven with Him, I believe He gave Him the right hand of Christian fellowship and said, Mission accomplished.
David Morris:
Yes. Right.
Tom Miller:
And I believe that Solus Christus teaches that to us in our day and age. That's an expression we understand: mission accomplished. He doesn't need, you know, it's jumping Jack Carlisle's song, I don't see, I can do this job all by myself. Christ does not need anyone to come afterwards and finish it.
David Morris:
That's right. Right. It's done.
Gordan Runyan:
Amen. It is finished.
David Morris:
That's what I was going to say. On the cross, Jesus said, It is finished. And when He said that, that meant the plan—not the cross, I mean, not that specific moment, it did not mean that. It meant that from the beginning of time to the end of time, His plan that God had activated—
Gordan Runyan:
the plan of redemption.
David Morris:
Redemption, yes. It was from A to Z was completely finished, and everything was covered. There's now, there's no need. For anybody else to come along and say they're God or to say they're the new sacrifice or anything else, Jesus did it all on the cross forever.
Tom Miller:
I'm going to be the devil's advocate at this point. Trent tells me that faith in Christ is only square one.
Gordan Runyan:
Oh, right.
Tom Miller:
That there is some sort of a bank account in heaven with the good deeds that all my ancestors did before me.
Gordan Runyan:
Yeah.
Tom Miller:
And that Peter was given the keys to the kingdom. And since the Pope sits on the seat of Peter, which they still call it, then I got to have his nod as well as Christ's nod. Okay, gentlemen, tell me I'm wrong.
David Morris:
Right.
Tom Miller:
What exactly, what keys did Christ hand to Peter on his profession of faith?
David Morris:
Well, if I remember the scripture right, Jesus told Peter, he said, Upon this rock... I will build my church. And there's a lot of people think that because Peter's name was stone, stone or rock, they think that rock was Peter. But that rock that the church was built upon was Christ Jesus. That's the one that was—he's the one that built the—he was the solid foundation for the church. Peter was only one man. I mean, he was a man with a mission for Christ, and that's all. He had Christ backing him, but he couldn't do the things that Jesus did.
Tom Miller:
Well, how about going back to verse 16:31, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Could that have been the keys that he was talking about?
David Morris:
That is, that could be.
Gordan Runyan:
Well, then later in the same Gospel, Jesus tells all the assembled apostles that he's giving them the keys. Yeah, just talking about kingdom government and stuff like that. But yeah, I don't think it looked in chapter 16 like it might be exclusively about Peter, but later on he expands it to the whole assembly.
David Morris:
Yeah, he never intended for it to be a single entity. And, you know, he wanted—Jesus's plan and God's plan was to become a full-blown revival of people and drawing more people in, and so it wasn't a single—Single event. It was meant for, it was meant for many people.
Tom Miller:
How can we take what happened between Philip and the eunuch and not find the understanding? Because the eunuch heard the word, and the word brought regeneration in his heart. But for salvation, what did Philip say? Do you believe in your heart?
Gordan Runyan:
Right, that's right.
Tom Miller:
And he says, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and thereby he was baptized there. And as a baptizer of adults only, by immersion only, that's the key to the kingdom. Your faith is the key that unlocks the door.
Gordan Runyan:
Yeah, I was going to say that Peter was given the keys in Matthew 16, and if you watch his story as it continues, especially in the first half of the book of Acts, you see how he exercises those keys. It's just by preaching the gospel.
David Morris:
Yeah, yeah.
Gordan Runyan:
He's not bossing people around or anything of that nature. In fact, in chapter 15, when they had a controversy, they needed an authoritative way of settling it. He didn't stand up as the first pope and say, Listen, I'm speaking ex cathedra here, and I'm going to settle this. He was the first of several witnesses that came forward. And so when he testified, he wasn't exercising authority in that. He was just being a witness to what God had done, and nobody took his word as You know, this is what our Pope has said, and we can do no other. There were still arguments to be made.
Tom Miller:
Yes, I think it's also significant that Peter did not contend with Paul over the circumcision question.
Gordan Runyan:
No.
Tom Miller:
At all. He sided with Paul.
David Morris:
Yeah.
Tom Miller:
And the letter they sent out was highly Protestant.
David Morris:
Yeah. Well, talking about Peter, I thought of two instances, and one of them was him and—I don't remember which one—him and another apostle headed to the temple, and the man couldn't walk was sitting there.
Tom Miller:
Peter and John.
David Morris:
Peter and John. And what did Peter tell him? He told him, he said, I don't have, you know,
Tom Miller:
silver and
David Morris:
gold. Silver
Tom Miller:
and
David Morris:
gold. But such as I have, I will give you in the name of Jesus, stand
Tom Miller:
up.
David Morris:
So his keys, he freely used, Jesus was his key.
Gordan Runyan:
Right. The gospel was the gospel
David Morris:
of Jesus was his key. And the other instance was when he was in, I believe it's in Acts, where the sorcerer, Bar-Jesus or whatever, you know, and they saw him—
Gordan Runyan:
Simon. Simon,
David Morris:
that's it. Simon, laying hands on, and he said, If you'll—I'll give you however much money you want to give me that talent. And they came down on him like, you know, told him that. Yeah. With that attitude, he was—
Gordan Runyan:
Yeah, Peter unloaded a truckload of bricks on him.
Tom Miller:
Also, if you look at the Philippian jailer. What must I do to be saved?
David Morris:
Right.
Tom Miller:
And he said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you and your household. He gave away keys.
David Morris:
That's right.
Tom Miller:
He gave entrusted keys to the jailer to use those keys to the hearts of his children.
David Morris:
That's good.
Tom Miller:
That's
David Morris:
true.
Tom Miller:
That'll preach.
David Morris:
That's really good.
Tom Miller:
That'll preach. He gave the keys away. He says, Here, I'm unlocking your heart. Now you take the same scriptures that I've shared with you. You share those with your wife and children.
David Morris:
Right.
Gordan Runyan:
I have seen the task of gospel preaching, pastoring, I've seen it as a weekly exercise in trying to hand people the keys to their own shackles, their own jail cell, or whatever it is that has them bound up. That's all I can do. I can hand you the keys, but you've got to at some point,
David Morris:
you've got to pick them up.
Gordan Runyan:
Right. You've
David Morris:
got to
Gordan Runyan:
unlock.
David Morris:
And you guys talking here, just, I'm sorry, me being the kind of guy I am, I'm like, well, that goes one of the notes that's against sola Christus is, you know, the church has got to be involved. And y'all were talking about giving the keys away, and how many churches have you been in where the deacons and the elders and even the preacher himself was so tight they wouldn't give you nothing. You know, they wouldn't give you a good word. I've been in a few of those churches where the— If you could have got their nose out of the rafter, they could have seen us, you know, as real people, but they didn't treat us that way.
Tom Miller:
Oh, you know, there's an English expression, I don't want them queering me job.
David Morris:
So, you know, when the church is involved, there can't be— if Christ isn't in the church, there is no reason for anything else in the church because—
Tom Miller:
well, it's not even a church.
David Morris:
It's not a church.
Tom Miller:
It's just a group of people.
David Morris:
That's right. And you can appoint offices to anybody you want to, but without Christ doing the job, if Christ ain't doing the appointing, it's worthless.
Gordan Runyan:
Yeah.
Tom Miller:
Yeah, and let's hitchhike a little bit on this thing about the church needs to be involved. How many New Testament examples do you have of people sharing the gospel who have no standing in the church at all? My goodness, her name, she's down— the dealer in purple,
David Morris:
Lydia.
Tom Miller:
Lydia was teaching the Scripture without any authority at all. Nobody told her she could do it.
David Morris:
That's right.
Tom Miller:
And so the church doesn't need to be involved. The only persons that need to be involved are the person talking and the Holy Spirit inspiring.
Gordan Runyan:
Right.
David Morris:
That's right.
Gordan Runyan:
Well, and then it depends a lot on how you define the church. You know, we have Jesus saying,‘ Where two or more are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst.’ Yeah. So it doesn't take, like—An institution moving with all its administrative momentum. We're just talking about Christians getting together and deciding to be on mission together and that sort of thing. I don't think it has to be super formal.
Tom Miller:
No, Lydia had a bunch of women down at the river washing their laundry, and she was dyeing cloth. And like women do, they started chatting.
David Morris:
Yep.
Tom Miller:
And she just, you know, I could see her saying, Well, tell me, Sally, do you know my friend Jesus? You know, no church involved.
David Morris:
Nope, that's right.
Gordan Runyan:
Well, let me ask this other question. This may be a can of worms to open late in the podcast, but when we talk about Solus Christus and Him being our only mediator, our one High Priest, our one Prophet and King, how does that—how do we then fit the doctrine that we Baptists love a lot, the doctrine of the priesthood of all believers, and the issue of what some would call soul competency or the right and duty of private judgment? Do those doctrines fit together, or are they in conflict? What does it mean that we believe in a priesthood of all believers?
Tom Miller:
I think that those things were inspired as defenses, because we were being assailed by a church that called itself the Mother Church. And we took the Scriptures, and we saw in the Scripture that there's no necessity for a mother church, that a believer can believe what the Word of God says on their own.
Gordan Runyan:
Right.
Tom Miller:
And if they need help understanding, they can seek that help. From other brothers and sisters in Christ.
Gordan Runyan:
Right. Yeah, and I think it's important that when we talk about the priesthood of all believers, we're not saying that every believer is his own priest, which is kind of the Catholic charge that's made, that, oh, you just think you're, you know, it's just you and God, and you're your own priest. That's not what we're saying at all.
Tom Miller:
And we're not sacrificing.
Gordan Runyan:
No. I mean, and we do give gifts. We do bring offerings and sacrifice of praise, sacrifice of lips that are giving thanks to the Lord. And there's a metaphorical sort of offering taking place, but it's not meant to—we're not paying for sins.
Tom Miller:
No, it's not a redemptive sacrifice.
Gordan Runyan:
Right.
Tom Miller:
It's a stewardship sacrifice.
Gordan Runyan:
Right. And we're also not standing between anyone and God. We can be urging them, but we're kind of pointing them where we have been. We're pointing them to what we've already seen. We're not standing in the road like, You got to go through me, or,
David Morris:
Right, yeah,
Gordan Runyan:
Follow me, or—that's not at all what we're doing. And no, the lips of the priest were supposed to teach the people knowledge in the Word, and we are supposed to do that sort of thing. We are supposed to share the truth of the Word of God, but that doesn't make us mediators in that way.
Tom Miller:
No. And in the pastor position, I have had people come in, you know, with questions and problems and turmoils, and I will give them Scripture to go home, like homework.
David Morris:
Right. Right.
Tom Miller:
And next week come back at the same time, and we'll discuss what you've discovered from the Scriptures. They are exercising their individual priesthood. By looking at the scripture and then saying, God, what does this mean? Right. How does this apply to my situation? Then they can come back to me, and the elder then will say, Okay, what did you learn? All right, well, let's discuss that.
David Morris:
Right, right. Yeah. I was going to say, even though you, you, when you go out telling your scripture and your story and everything it takes to help people see who God is and desire repentance, that don't make you glorified in any manner. All that makes you is a willing servant.
Gordan Runyan:
It doesn't even make you needful.
David Morris:
No.
Gordan Runyan:
God doesn't need you to do this.
David Morris:
No, He does not.
Unidentified speaker:
Right.
Tom Miller:
Well, there is one thing He needs us to do, and that's to be obedient to Him.
David Morris:
Obedient.
Tom Miller:
And when we do ministries, which is what you're talking about, that's an act of obedience, not animal sacrifice or, you know. Right. Yeah. But we don't have to go looking for a priest anymore to do that priestly thing for us because of 1 John 1:9.
Gordan Runyan:
Right.
Tom Miller:
He, meaning God, is faithful and just to forgive us of sins.
Gordan Runyan:
Right. But He's the only priest that we're obligated to obey all the time, even before we know what He's calling us to. We just know going in, he's the one we have to obey enough. I think the doctrine of the soul competency or the right and duty of private judgment means that for all these human so-called mediators, or would-be mediators, we have the inalienable right, because it can't be any other way, we have the right to just believe what we believe and not feel coerced to come to some belief that we really don't believe. Our soul can't be forced with violence or threat of violence to some different opinion. And so at all times, we're the ones that are going to be judged for our own faith or lack thereof. And I think that's important. And it doesn't mean that we're a priest in the same sense. It just means that we know who our priest is.
Tom Miller:
But we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ, and it's not a judgment as in, you know, the court's over and the sentence is going to be. It's more like when I used to have to do individual counseling of soldiers who worked for me, I'd have to say, Okay, you've been doing it this way, but the reg says you have to do it that way. And I think the judgment seat of Christ is going to be more that sort of thing, where Christ is going to say, You know, good effort, but here and there you made mistakes, things that we don't confess. It's a critique, not a sentencing hearing.
Gordan Runyan:
That's interesting. Yeah, that's interesting.
Tom Miller:
Yeah, that's good.
Gordan Runyan:
All right. Anything else that y'all want to say about this and get the final word in? Christ as high priest, Christ as our only mediator.
Tom Miller:
I like, you know, you were talking about the exclusiveness of Christ. I like to end with the supremacy of Christ.
Gordan Runyan:
Okay. Yep.
Tom Miller:
That's good. There is no other authority above Christ other than Godhead in the three persons.
David Morris:
That's right. Yeah.
Tom Miller:
So when it comes to scriptural things, Christ is the—He is the supreme mediator.
David Morris:
Yes.
Tom Miller:
There is none above Him. Just like God the Father is the only Creator God. He doesn't have an assistant.
David Morris:
Right. And you can't believe in Jesus Christ without believing in God the Father and the Holy Spirit. You've got to have that triune Godhead belief, or you will never be saved. You'll never have repentance.
Unidentified speaker:
Amen.
Tom Miller:
And not only applied authority, but the actual delineation of authority from God the Father to God the Son to God the Holy Spirit demonstrates His supremacy.
David Morris:
Yes.
Tom Miller:
In other words, God loved them, but there's nobody in Salt Lake City that has more authority than Jesus Himself.
David Morris:
That's right. Or in Washington, D. C. or Santa Fe.
Tom Miller:
Yes. Or much to his chagrin, in Sacramento, California.
Gordan Runyan:
All right, y'all. I think we've put this one to bed pretty well. Pastor Tom, I'm going to ask you to pray for our listeners before we leave, and pray that God will use this podcast for His own glory. Would you do that for us?
Tom Miller:
Yes. Lord, may our weak, stammering, and often insufficient efforts, O Lord, use them now by the power of Your Word and Your Holy Spirit to touch hearts that are confused or need to be more carefully taught through the Word and by Your Spirit, that they will take these our little efforts and that You will multiply them in the hearts and minds and lives of many, O Lord. That they will also take their own individual priesthood as believers and exercise that in our favorite thing to preach on, and that's studying the Word. If you have questions this afternoon, then take them to the Lord. Open the Word and let the Spirit of God guide and direct you. And if you know not Christ today, may I highly recommend that you seek Him while He may be found. And in His precious name we pray. All God's people say, Amen.
Gordan Runyan:
All right, y'all, that's it for us at the Ragtown Reformed Forum. Find us on YouTube, and your podcast catchers, we'll be there. You can look us up and get a hold of us at ibctucumcari. com. I just thought about that the other day, that we announced ibctucumcari. com, but nobody knows how to spell Tucumcari. So, IBC, T-U-C-U-M-C-A-R-I, ibctucumcari. com. And I believe the Reformed Forum has its own website as well. So, lots of ways to get in touch with us. We love y'all. We don't know you, but we're hoping the best for you, and we want to see you blessed. So, come back next time. We'll be here. God bless y'all. Bye-bye.